Chris Hipkins and Jacinda Ardern pictured at a a vaccination clinic in Lower Hutt in February 2022. Photo: RNZ / Angus Dreaver
A week-long public hearing for decision-makers in the Covid-19 pandemic has been scrapped because former ministers - including former PM Jacinda Ardern - will not show up.
The Royal Commission of Inquiry aims to identify lessons learned from the government response in order to better prepare for future pandemics.
Inquiry chair Grant Illingworth KC says a second week of public hearings - set down for next week - is "no longer justified" because former ministers will not participate.
They include Ardern, Chris Hipkins, Grant Robertson and Ayesha Verrall - who have been interviewed in private, and have argued that repeating their answers in a public hearing would be "performative rather than informative".
The commission said the decision to scrap next week's hearings included a number of factors, such as a significant amount of information gained from former ministers and officials via private interviews, and the need to avoid unnecessary cost and delay.
The chair also said the inquiry had other mechanisms available to obtain necessary evidence and also to increase transparency and public confidence.
Labour leader and former cabinet minister Chris Hipkins told media this afternoon that he had answered every question the inquiry had.
"I attended the interview that they scheduled for me, they had asked for two hours, they ran out of questions after an hour."
Hipkins said the public hearing would repeat the questions he had already answered during his private session.
"They themselves said that it wasn't a matter of gathering any further information, that there was no further information they were looking for."
He said that if the inquiry did not have any new questions for him, he did not see "any value" in attending the public hearing.
There was no collusion between himself and other former ministers on the matter, he said.
Hipkins said some of the questions related to "specific lockdown decisions".
A spokesperson for Dame Jacinda Ardern said Ardern had cooperated fully with the royal commission.
"She's provided extensive evidence, including through a recent interview that lasted three hours and has also offered access to her evidence from the first Royal Commission."
The spokesperson said Ardern remained available to answer any further questions the Commission had.
"The Commission's work is important and she will continue supporting them in reaching their terms of reference."
Verrall, who was Health Minister for some of the Covid response, said the former ministers had been "giving the Commission all the information it needs".
"I have provided extensive evidence and attended an interview put down for two hours with the commissioners where they could ask whatever they wanted. In my interview they ran out of questions in our allocated time, so I clearly provided everything they needed.
"I am accountable every day to media and the public. We've been talking about these issues for five years and two elections.
"We've now had two Royal Commissions, and we've contributed to them both. It's important to learn lessons from the pandemic and the response, and I expect they will be implemented now."
Intended to enhance public confidence
Internal Affairs Minister Brooke van Velden said she was disappointed to learn those requested had refused to give evidence publicly.
Van Velden said in light of the refusal she had sought assurance from the commission they had the access they needed.
Illingworth said the hearings were intended to enhance public confidence in the Inquiry's processes by enabling the public to see former Ministers questioned in public.
He said that they had critical insights into the pandemic response.
"The Covid-19 pandemic was a significant event that affected every New Zealander. The government at the time, through its ministers, made decisions about how we as a nation responded to that pandemic, which had implications for all of us.
"We have been tasked with reviewing those decisions, and we thought it was important that the public see and hear for themselves important evidence about why some key decisions about the response to Covid-19 were made and for what reason."
He said it had given careful consideration to whether to issue a summons to the former ministers but had decided not to proceed with that course of action.
"On balance we are of the view that a summons is undesirable given that the former ministers continue to co-operate with the evidence-gathering of the Inquiry. It is our opinion that the use of summonses to achieve their participation at a public hearing would be legalistic and adversarial, which our terms of reference prohibit."
The inquiry was giving further consideration to how it would collect evidence going forward and would provide more information about this as part of its regular communication.
It was due to report back to the Governor-General at the end of February 2026.
Van Velden said it was disappointing next week's public hearing would not be going ahead.
"The Commission itself determined that it would be in the public interest for the report and its findings about the information regarding those members to be made in public, so it would boost confidence in what they were reading in the report itself.
"It's disappointing that the former members have not come to that decision and determination themselves but forced the commission into a legalistic approach, which they've decided not to go down."
ACT leader David Seymour pretended to run away from reporters on the black and white tiles, before saying he was "kidding, that's the other guys".
"People are still traumatised from missing out on seeing their dying loved ones or missing the birth of their child because of the restrictions that these people put in place.
"I don't think it's unreasonable to show up for an hour or two and actually give your side of the story for the posterity of the nation. It's good that they've cooperated in privacy, we're told. And I think the New Zealand people deserve them to show up."
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