Shimmy Jiyane was four when the Soweto uprising took place.
He can just remember the school protests that broke out in the South African black township in 1976, and the Apartheid regime's oppression of them.
In the years that followed, he remembers when the police came to take friends into custody, where they were sometimes beaten and tortured.
He also remembers the gospel singing which gave the black people of Soweto courage and hope, even when there seemed to be none.
Eventually South Africa's Apartheid regime of white-only rule did fall, and now the South African gospel style is the toast of the singing world.
Next month, Aucklanders will get two chances to hear the 370-year-old tradition in full voice, when Jiyane leads the Soweto Gospel Choir in two concerts for the Auckland Arts Festival.
Soweto Gospel Choir Photo: Will Bucquoy
Speaking to RNZ Concert host Bryan Crump, Jiyane says the choir gathers the best gospel singers from Soweto and beyond.
Jiyane was with the choir when it formed in 2002, and these days he's its director as well as choreographer - dance is just as important as singing in the South African gospel tradition.
Jiyane also told Crump about performing for the South African President Nelson Mandela not long after the choir won its first Grammy Award in 2006.
Mandela arrived late as the choir was singing its first song, the celebratory Sesotho-language "Hlonolofatsa". The President asked the choir to stop and begin again, not because he disliked the performance, but so he could join in the singing himself.
Mandela: Choir member for a day. Photo: AFP
Jiyane says the gospel tradition remains strong in Soweto, with no shortage of young singers wanting to join.
Audition sessions last the whole day "until eleven at night".
For its concerts in Auckland, the choir will also perform music from beyond South Africa including songs by Aretha Franklin, Stevie Wonder, James Brown and Sam Cooke.
Soweto Gospel Choir Photo: Will Bucquoy
